Financially Inclined September 20, 2024 Transcript

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Yanely Espinal: What’s up, everybody! I’m Yanely Espinal, and welcome to Financially Inclined from Marketplace. We’re sharing money lessons for living life your own way. Today’s episode is all about online gambling.

You should know that gambling is actually illegal for anyone under 18 and in many states under 21 years old. So why are we talking about this? Well, you might be surprised to learn that it still affects a lot of teenagers. And it might seem like this is all fun and games, but you gotta understand that the odds are always rigged against you. In the long run, almost nobody actually makes a profit when they gamble. My guest, Danny Funt is a journalist who has reported a lot on the rise of sports betting in the United States. He’s here to teach us more about online gambling, how it can be manipulative, and how to recognize the signs of gambling addiction. So let’s get into it.

Yanely Espinal: So tell us what got you interested in writing about online gambling.

Danny Funt: So I’ve always been a huge sports fan, and I just felt like I grew up with the assumption that sports betting was this horrible vice that would never be legalized in the US, something that ruined a World Series 100 years ago, and no sports want anything to do with it. And then about six years ago, in seemingly like a blink of an eye, it was everywhere. I was being inundated with ads. All my favorite teams had partnerships with these sportsbook operators. And I just wondered how did, as a society, we go so suddenly, from “this is an evil vice” to “this is a harmless form of fun that we should embrace wholeheartedly”? And I’ve spent the last few years trying to get to the bottom of that.

Yanely Espinal: Yeah, it’s so interesting, because you say like sports betting right away, and I know that that’s one of the big components. But what are, like, all of the other things that fit under the umbrella term online gambling?

Danny Funt: You’re right. It’s a it’s kind of a wholesale shift from, you know, you had to go to Las Vegas or Atlantic City if you wanted to gamble, or certain tribes. Now you can basically go anywhere across the country. I think we’re moving in that direction. So it’s not just brick and mortar casinos where, you know, you go and there’s slot machines buzzing and table games everywhere, but you can bet on basically every sport. Believe me, I’ve looked into it: there’s cornhole, table tennis. You wouldn’t believe it. And then beyond that, now a lot of states are legalizing what they call i- gaming, which is basically playing traditional casino games on your phone, so you can play blackjack, you can play poker on your phone. And then there’s a pretty big gray area of things that pose as conventional games but utilize a lot of the addictive concepts of traditional gambling. And I think lawmakers are gonna have to sort that out, because you could see that being an awfully slippery slope.

Yanely Espinal: For sure. I mean, when I think about like sports culture growing up, it was so different from what it’s become today, and I imagine it’s because online gambling has played a big role in that. Can you talk about that shift in sports culture, and especially as it relates to college sports?

Danny Funt: Yeah, definitely, there always was gambling. Like, that’s just been a part of sports basically since sports were invented, but you had to really look it out if you were interested. Like, you had to know the right people or the right websites and be determined if you wanted to get down a wager. Now I talk to so many people who want nothing to do with gambling, but it’s just intertwined with like the experience of being a fan. You can’t be a fan and not be bombarded with appeals to gamble. And that’s the same, as you were saying, in pro sports as it is in college sports. Some states try to limit that there are states where you can’t bet on either any college sports or the college teams in your state. I know Washington, DC, for example, is a place where you can’t bet on like Georgetown University or American because they’re in DC, but you could bet on Maryland because they’re a short drive over, you know, in College Park. A little bit arbitrary there. But there’s also been some direct marketing targeting college students because they make great customers. You know, companies always want to get young blood into the system, and unfortunately, they have a predisposition to some problem gambling. So that can be pretty messy too.

Yanely Espinal: It definitely feels like there’s a gray area when it comes to like the psychological aspect of it. How do you feel like these online gambling companies are messing with people psychologically, if you see it, and how?

Danny Funt: The most fundamental one is setting expectations. It’s really, really hard to make money over the long term in any form of gambling. That’s why people are willing to take your bets or let you sit down at the card table or the slot machine, whatever the case may be. It’s kind of a rigged business, and I say “rigged’ that sounds illegal – as long as both sides know what they’re getting themselves into, you could make the case that that’s okay. But I think so many people, particularly with sports, because a lot of sports fans think, “Oh, I know my favorite team, or I know my favorite sport, this is a chance for me to actually make money.” I hear the term “side hustle” so often, but for I’m not exaggerating. 99.999% of people, they’re only going to end up losing money. So I think, I think those false set of expectations can be really dangerous.

Yanely Espinal: What about like gamblers fallacy, which I found looking up like online gambling terms. How would you explain that to like, a teenager.

Danny Funt: Yeah, anytime you hear the expression, “I’m due” or “they’re due” – like, “Oh, my team, you know, has come so close repeatedly, they’re due for a win.” Or, “Oh, I’ve flipped this coin five times in a row in its heads, it’s due to be tails.” That’s just not how probability works, not how data works, and it’s something that casinos and gambling operators take advantage of over and over again.

Yanely Espinal: How do you see gambling like features coming up in game apps or online phone games?

Danny Funt: Yeah, there are some incredibly sneaky ways of slipping gambling into things that just look like a puzzle or a contest or a maze or whatever the case may be. I think a lot of us can see like a hand of poker and know, okay, this is gambling. But when we’re just playing some game that we love on our phone, and they’re finding a way to have us put in money with the opportunity to win money, it’s much more likely that we lose money, and then they’re using techniques that casinos have honed for decades to make that game extra addictive. Those are just ways that gambling is infiltrating even the most simple and benign seeming games that we play on our phones all the time.

Yanely Espinal: Yeah, I’ve even seen some on, like, kids’ games,

Danny Funt: Yeah, even, like the in-game purchases on video games now, I know not, not all of that is like literally gambling, but I’m just so grateful when I was a kid that didn’t exist, because, yeah, my parents would have been furious if I even asked for their credit card for in app purchases.

Yanely Espinal: Same! So there’s pressure everywhere. How can you resist the urge to gamble?

Danny Funt: It’s hard, that’s for sure. I would say the number one thing is there’s a lot of new customer offers that you’ll see, like sign up and get $500 in free bets or a deposit match, or whatever the case may be. Just think about the fact that they’re giving you that money on the front end because they know they’ll make it back and then some on the back end. So be wary when you see those sign-up offers, because it’s kind of like putting out bait on a fishing line and hoping someone’s going to bite into it. Treat that with caution. T

he other thing is, there’s a whole variety of tools that are out there – they can be hard to find, but they do exist – tools that can help you moderate how much you’re gambling like there’s websites that block certain sites. One called Bet Blocker blocks 1000s of gambling sites, so you can kind of have help resisting that urge to go gamble. At certain places, you can set deposit limits, so in this month, I’m not going to give them more than 100 bucks. I might lose that in my first few days and be desperate to get back at it, but I need to cool off for a little bit. Those tools are there.

And then, if you get more serious trouble, there’s some more serious tools available, like counseling, different forms of treatment, definitely hotlines in every state for people who feel like they’re headed down a dangerous path. So I’m happy to say that tools exist. It’s really about knowing they exist and knowing how to find them.

Yanely Espinal: Yeah, and when it comes to deep trouble, like, how do you recognize it, in yourself, or maybe even, like a friend that you have, that they might have a gambling addiction?

Danny Funt: It’s hard. Um, Rutgers University in New Jersey did a really impactful study of gambling behavior in their state. They found that 19 percent of men ages 18 to 24 were predisposed to high-risk gambling behavior, which is a pretty crazy number, almost one in five.

“Problem gambling” is any type of gambling where you feel out of control. Doesn’t matter how much you’re betting or how often you’re betting. If you can’t be in total control of when you’re doing it and to what degree you’re doing it, then it becomes a problem. So you might say, “Oh, if I’m not betting more than I can afford, I’m okay. If I’m not betting every day, I’m okay.” Not necessarily. I think a lot of the useful advocacy groups have laid out more so, like, emotional criteria to think about how you’re doing. Like, do you in your passing thoughts, kind of have this itch to gamble whenever you’re not gambling? Are you borrowing money from people, or, worse, stealing money to either pay off a debt or put in more money? Do you lose and then say to yourself, “Oh, I gotta bet twice as much next time so I can make it back.”

Yanely Espinal: Don’t do that. Don’t do that.

Danny Funt: Yeah, no, it’s classic bad behavior. But it’s so easy to fall into those traps. You tell yourself, “I’m smarter than this, I’m more disciplined than this,” and yet, very quickly you can make those mistakes. So being able to see them, as you were saying, in yourself, but also in family and friends, is really, really important.

Yanely Espinal: Yeah, if somebody were to have the problem, admitting is definitely, I think, probably the first and the hardest step. But then, how do you get help, if you feel like you have an addiction, or you’re starting to notice signs of a potential addiction, either yourself or maybe in like your friend, your best friend. How do you get help?

Danny Funt: Those are challenging conversations, just like with any frankly, substance abuse issue. You know you might see someone as a drinking problem or a drug problem. You want to help them, but knowing how to delicately approach them is challenging. So fortunately, there’s all sorts of organizations that help you with that, like the National Council on Problem Gaming is a really useful, memorable one to go search if you’re looking for resources. 1-800-GAMBLER is this organization that operates a hotline that you can call. If you feel like you’re experiencing a gambling crisis, they can direct you to the right resources and also for yourself and for others. Most of these legal gambling companies offer tools within their app or website, or whatever the case may be, to help you set limits on yourself. So you can say, “Don’t take my bets. Don’t even let me sign on, don’t let me deposit money.” And if you have the strength and the ability to do that, hopefully that can help rein you in. But if, if that’s too challenging, which definitely happens, you know, you might do that on one site and then go to another site and start betting…

Yanley Espinal: right? Or use a friend’s phone or your brother’s phone.

Danny Funt: for real! Yeah, I mean, you’ll find a way. That’s the tough part about addiction. Fortunately, there’s a variety of resources going up to the point of counseling, just like you might need a therapist for any number of mental health issues. This truly is a mental health issue, and I’m really glad that lawmakers, corporations and health advocates are putting it in those terms.

Yanely Espinal: Ooo! Danny dropped so many gems. Now we mentioned at the beginning that gambling is illegal for people under a certain age, under 18 in some states, 21 in others. But that doesn’t stop these companies from targeting teens and trying to pressure you to give them your money. And a lot of these tricks are now sneaking into the games we play on our phones too. Now there’s a fine line between responsible gambling and problem gambling, so you should be mindful of those warning signs that Danny told us about. If you think that you or a friend might have a gambling problem, then you can get help, just like Danny said, this is really a mental health issue. It’s not something that anybody should be ashamed of. So if this affects you in any way, tell an adult that you trust and go check out some of those resources that we talked about, like the National Council for Problem Gambling or 1-800-GAMBLER.

If you have any questions for us, or you want to share your own story, our email is financiallyinclined@marketplace.org

Financially Inclined is brought to you by Marketplace from American Public Media, in collaboration with Next Gen Personal Finance. I’m your host, Yanely Espinal. Our Senior Producer is Zoë Saunders. Our Video Editor is Francesca Manto, and our Graphics Artist is Mallory Brangan. Our producer is Hannah Harris Green. And our intern is Marika Proctor. The podcast was edited by Courtney Bergsieker. Gary O’Keefe is our Sound engineer. Bridget Bodnar is the Director of Podcasts. Caitlin Esch is Supervising Producer. Francesca Levy is the Executive Director. Neal Scarbrough is the VP & General Manager of Marketplace. Our theme music is by Wonderly. Catch you next time!

Financially Inclined is funded in part by the Sy Syms Foundation, partnering with organizations and people working for a better and more just future since 1985. And special thanks to the Ranzetta Family Charitable Fund and Next Gen Personal Finance for continuing to support Marketplace in its work to make younger audiences smarter about the economy.